about (un)danceability of music

[katazumiri]

@The_Bumble_Bard I’ll open a new topic so as not to clutter the July 2024 Member Challenge.

I am interested in the topic of (un)danceability of music, maybe someone else as well.

So there are two people with different points of view.

One of them (Jochen) is a former sports and English teacher with 37 years of experience, currently a tango DJ and a private tango teacher.

The other (Thomas) is a retired journalist. Hobby dancer (standard, latina, tango), 18 years of dance experience, loves to dance to live music, and also likes to watch choreographed dances.

Jochen believes that it is impossible to dance tango to Piazzolla’s music. Thomas’s opinion is the opposite.

What would a tango evening look like? Please consider the number of people and available space.

[katazumiri]

Now let’s see what a choreographed dance to Piazzolla’s music looks like. In this case it is Escualo.

The description under the video says: „… we combine the tango technique with disciplines such as ballet, jazz and we add tricks to make our performance even more attractive „

[katazumiri]

The problem is that at tango evenings where there are a lot of dancers and limited space, there are rules that it is advisable to follow, for example, dance only forward (the space behind you belongs to other dancers), your feet always remain on the floor. Otherwise, the risk of injury will increase. And here we can see an example of how to dance in a confined space

Unfortunately, not all dancers follow these rules. And Piazzolla’s music “provokes” people to disregard safety rules.

[katazumiri]

Jochen teaches how to dance tango to traditional tango music, neo tango and non-tango. He also believes that it is impossible to dance tango to, for example, “Take Five.” He says that his students usually “don’t hear” 5/4, and those who do can’t translate it into dance. Tango is usually in 2/4 or 4/4 time.

“Take Five” is a jazz standard, so jazz dancers can probably handle it without any problems. I was interested in how non-jazz dancers interpret this dance.

Here we see salsa dancers. Salsa is usually in 4/4 time, so salsa dancers have much the same problems as tango dancers, namely what to do with the extra 1/4.

I like what they did.

[katazumiri]

And here is an interpretation in the style of traditional Japanese dance.

I just find it fascinating.

[katazumiri]

Let’s return to Piazzolla. It turns out that from Jochen’s point of view, Piazzolla’s music is not danceable under certain conditions. And if you go beyond the limiting boundaries, then you can dance.
Finally, Piazzolla´s music interpreted by step dancers. And again it’s Esсualo.

[The_Bumble_Bard]

@katazumiri, very intriguing indeed! After I replied to the challenge thread, I was thinking I said too much maybe, which I know I do that in certain contexts, but I’m glad you shared all you did here in this way! Thank you so much for explaining all that and sharing all those amazing videos! 😁

So, if I understand all this (as this is the first time I’ve ever heard of this concept in my life 😂, though I do love to watch dance and find it interesting), what are the limiting boundaries that Jochen thinks Piazzolla’s music has? Under what conditions does it become danceable-to? The last dancers in particular, and also the ones in your second post, seem to be nailing it. 😅

I find the 5/4 time concept interesting and I actually really like the song Take Five. I guess I can see why anyone would say it’s hard to “feel” that time and try to dance to it, as I have trouble properly feeling 4/4 time a lot of the time. 😂 I also don’t fully understand what kind of effect the extra beat is meant to have, other than being confusing to some people. 😉😂

Thank you again for sharing all that, very interesting, I feel enlightened, and all those dances were great to watch! 😁💕

[katazumiri]

I’m glad you liked it. ☺

Johan believes that Piazzolla’s music is very difficult for those who come to his tango evenings. This is the most important limitation from his point of view.
At the end of the discussion, which dragged on and never ended, he said that in principle he did not like Piazzolla. This is another important limiting factor. This factor influences the decisions Johan makes.

The dancers from the second and last post are professionals who like Piazzolla.
Tango evenings are often attended by beginners or “eternal beginners” (dancers with low skill levels), some of them have no idea who Piazzolla is and that they are dancing “wrong”. But Johan understands this.

You’re right: the extra bit is confusing. Johan said that “Take Five” is simpler than Piazzolla’s music. There are many details in Piazzolla’s music that are confusing.☺

[The_Bumble_Bard]

I feel like that is a huge limiting factor if you dislike a certain style; therefore you might argue against it just based on that bias. But if you love something, you’re more driven to overcome any obstacles or challenges involved in experiencing it. I feel like that’s the same thing with learning to play different styles of music on instruments. 😊

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